In my opinion the balance of power in Batain had been swinging in the direction of the organised working class lhe lones saw oute cleart that there had to be a fightback in otucr to мсаксп in powcr, 10 do this they realised they had to win a peneral clection → which of course ‹25 made easy for them beranse of policies pursued by the last Ar a result of these policies, some mparant sections of the working peopic cither abstained from voting ot turnedto the Tory Party, This gave so the Tories the chance they needed to reverse the increasing power of the morina ciass ano to move to rcassere in an undisputed way the power of the establishment, capital, and the Stock What do YOu argument that Labour failed because it had lost 'the middle ground'?
Elections are never won or lost in the election. People vote on the basis of the experience of the government's action and record in the previous We must never forget, those of ts in trade and labour movenent, that the majority Britain'& neople are working people If the interests of those peopie were adequately reptesented properly looked after by a Labour povernment then there need never be having The probiem is not that perhaps we ost the marginal votes of people who ie in effect middle class the middle of the road voters. The problem is not out a million and hall or million votes of this type that didn't me to us but went to the Tories.
The struggle is to hold working class support. IE we win the working class vote we win the majority of the British people.
How should the fightback aguinst the Tory goversment be carried out?
For example, in a statement atler the election you suid: *My joh is to Eink up with the Tribune group and the trade union group in Parlisment, but also to promote extra-Parlamentary struggle"
Which do you think is more Important the struggle Parliament or the struggle outside it?
I think struggle in botn places will be important. There has to be a struggle outside in order that support can be got in Parlament for the action outside People should not just elect their MP and then leave them alone, but demand to know what their position is on what's taking place outside. struggle has to take place in both places and they must be linked. What ubout the argument that action outside parlament to oppose the CUTEIBESCUL and its laws is not acceptable? I ask this beceuse, for example. NUPE has said it will rid the health service of pay beds und this has been attacked by Torles as violating Abo, the picketing during the 1972 and 1974 miners' strikes, the actions taken to free the Pentonville Five, and against the Industrial Relations Act would be illegai under the Tories new proposals.
What do you think of the argument used a5, "Callagien, others by Shirley Williams, and Prentice when he was in the Labour Party that people have the right fo agitate to change the law, but while the law exists you must carry it out?
The working class throughour it history has had to struggle against existing legislation. And that has meant opposing Acts of Parlament and compelling changes. situation is no different now.
If there are Acts of Parlament or acts commitled by government which don't meet with the support of the majority of the working class then that class will have to fight citber to stop legislation or to oppose it.
I don't acree with the Postion that was pur by Nye Revan. He said in hi book In P'lace of Fear that he dida'! Sociaise Challen 31 Max 197%, PHE 6 agree with industrial action So political ends.
It is important char industria clon should be taken for coonomic ends, for political ends, whatever ends the wishes to achieve. That's the strength, in fact the only real strength of che working class movement -the power to withold its labour and insist upon justice.
My LWUI ILNHOT emphatically rejected wbich was on the statute book Industrial Relations Act. o us it was an Act of Parlament herefore you have to acoept it anc wait until a Labour governent and then try and chanse it.
But, of course, that is not logical. If an Act of Parlament is so onerous il is Reg taking the berties people, in this case of trade unionists, Bount trade Dos0oesтs Jave tae rIETO fight against such a denial of liberty, which is what we did.
confiscating union still refused to accept that The legislation and was on the point of calling a general strike of engineers on the issue. This was only stopped, as you may remember, апопутоиз wealthy individual paid the fines and got the government off the hook.
As a result of that struggle by workine people the Act was remorod BY IDO HEAL LaDOEE gUsErHB!. there hadn't been that struggle there is for guarantce Act from the statute book for working class action taken against pay beds?
that it has trade union movement or the AUEW legislation justified. - the The People said brough, into operation.
What do sou think about urgument that by placing these Parlament and threaiening demogratie righis?
This is the Tuny Parlament, inception, has because some according the For the capitalists.
that the Labour povernment would have removed the So you wonld support industrial think that any kind of Industrial action by workers which is in line with the decisions taken by the organised by the LHBNUESCAHESSAHHECOLLCTEERI conference and the trade BOSCHELE unions have discussed pay bods and have taken decisions to end them. If the workers fecl that these docisions are being contravened or stopped or made inapplicable then they have the right to compell these decisions to be The calling Implementation of Labour Party or within TUC conference decisions you are orgunisations above the law and PLP. *Who niles, the trade unions or the law?' argument.
almost SincE had to change Tony Benn has forces outside Parlament-whether it has been the struggle against the powers of the annunl conference monarchy, the Lords, the landlords, that he Of course there have been struggle leader. outside Parlament in order to make changes. And these struggles hase heen reflected in the statute book by various laws being passed, bocause they have been demanded by chose forces outside Parlament.
So there is nothing new or strange in forces outside Parlament bringing forces to beur to make Parlament change the law and even change the very character of Parlament itself. In a statement following the election you called for 'a compicte change of Gendership and direction" in the labour But no one challeaged Callaghun us leader of the Labour Party. Esn't that a contradiction? Doesa't it hold hack the fight in the constituencies and trade unions because he can claim no one is challenging him?
Wbile there is a need tor a complete change in direction that doesn t mean all it will get the support that is needed Parlamentary Labour Party (PL.P). This, of course, refiects the fact that there has been very little change in the composition of the want:
There sbould be a challenge to the leadership of Jim Callaghan. I wonld like to see that challenge come from active Tony Benn, for the following reason.
guste considerable support and following; the highest they vote in the constituency section at the That indicates there is the feeling in the Labour Party would make a better I rould like 10 see him come Torward now as an alternative leader, and for the socialist section of the Labour Party, including the PLP, to give all the support necessaty to see that Bean and those that support him become the new leadership inside the Labour Parry and the PLP.
My view is that the leader of the Labour Parly should be elected by the annual conference in the same way that the treasurer is. But it isn'1 just a problem ol personalities, and I don't see the fight against the Tories as just being expressed through the leader of We must always remember to keep absolute loyalty lo the principles of socialism, but always only qualified loyalty to whoever is elected as leader.
lere imust be another Labour goveroment, which must be a socialist goverumens, so there has to be a struggle within the Labour Party, and the constituencies which are responsible for cheir owo MPs — to make certain that their political representatives - are in lae representing the types of policies they Ir is the responsibilicy of every single member of the Labour Parly and affiliated members to play an part finding their MP stands on the issues and struggles of the day and make cerlain are playing their part in the TECUHDHL You have talked abour the struggle in the constituency Lalour Parties, bui what alout the trade unions?
These are the most powerfl